Origen in 240 AD comments on Josephus, a first century jewith historian. He mentions Josephus' satement that Jesus was the brother of James. Origen mentions that Josephus did not accept Jesus as Christ. Tertullian born, 155 or 160 AD who was a roman citizen, made statement of his faith. He stated, ' At His own free-will, He with a word dismissed from Him His spirit, anticipating the executioner's work. In the same hour, too, the light of day was withdrawn, when the sun at the very time was in his meridian blaze. Those who were not aware that this had been predicted about Christ, no doubt thought it an eclipse. You yourselves have the account of the world-portent still in your archives.
But, lo, on the third day there a was a sudden shock of earthquake, and the stone which sealed the sepulchre was rolled away, and the guard fled off in terror: without a single disciple near, the grave was found empty....
All these things Pilate did to Christ; and now in fact a Christian in his own convictions
Is that bit of history convincing? What do you think?
No, it's not convincing. You mention Josephus suggesting that it is going to be the work of a non-believer that will support the christian claim. But instead you give a long quote from a christian apologist. And he was basically accepting the bible as fact and repeating what it claimed.
ReplyDeleteLet me simplify this for you. A thousand christian apologists saying the resurrection was real means nothing. A Roman writer confirming the resurrection (not just that christians believed in it or that some were willing to die for it) while still denying christianity would have much more impact.
These are examples of extra-biblical evidences that Jesus lived and that earth fell under darkness for 3 hour period.
ReplyDeleteDid you intend to link to something? Or maybe give a list? I don't see the examples. And Tertvllianvs is not giving extra-biblical evidence because he was not witness to the alleged events. He is essentially saying "the bible says it; I believe it; that settles it." Simply put, taking the bible and rephrasing it in your own words does not constitute extra-biblical evidence.
ReplyDeleteOk... take a look at these examples of extra biblical evidencs: Flavius Josephus(37-101AD)(Jewish historian) Mentions Herod murdered John the Baptist, John was virtuous man
ReplyDeleteJosephus (Antiquities, book 18, ch3, par3) Mentions Jesus as a wise man, doer of wonderful works, and teacher. Many men followed him. Mentions Pilate executed him on cross, and that he appeared to men three days later. Also the followers continued to that day.
Tacituss (55-117 AD) (Roman historian) States that before that date Jesus had been put to death by Pilate under the reign of Tiberius. Says that Nero, the present ruluer affixed blame on the christians at that time also.
Thallus(52AD)(history of Eastern Mediterranean from Trojan War to his own time) (His writings are 2nd hand from other autor's citations such as Julius Africanus)(221AD) (mentions Thallus' account of an eclipse of the sun) "On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun."
Pliny the Younger(112AD)(Governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor)(authored 10 books)(the last book was 112AD) "The Christians were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food but food of an ordinary and innocent kind."
The Talmud"On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, "He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Any one who can say anything in his favor, let him come forward and plead on his behalf." But since nothing was brought forward in his favor he was hanged on the eve of the Passover!"
Lucian(120-180AD)"The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account. . . . You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property."
BibleBob:
ReplyDeleteI do not dispute, for example, that early christians were willing to die for their beliefs. But it is not evidence that those beliefs are true. Yet you present it as such. Even according to the bible, Jesus's appearance to men after the "resurrection" was concealed. His followers didn't even recognize him. And outsiders? They could do no more than take the christians word for it.